CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Interview with Tom Malinowski

Interview

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BOLDUAN: Sam, thank you for your continued reporting on the ground. Really appreciate it.

OUTFRONT with me now, Democratic Congressman Tom Malinowski. He's a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee that was briefed earlier today by President Biden's National Security team. He's also a former Assistant Secretary of State under President Obama. Congressman, thank you for being here. Yesterday, you called the

August 31st deadline unacceptable and inexplicable. So what do you think today in hearing the President's statement that he's sticking by his deadline?

REP. TOM MALINOWSKI (D-NJ): I actually heard him say something a bit more ambiguous than that. Look, let me just first say, there's no way to keep the President's promise by August 31st. There's no way that we may be able to take out the American citizens in the Kabul area who wants to leave, but Afghans are at risk of retribution from the Taliban, Afghans who helped our troops will not have the opportunity to leave if we leave them.

But what I heard the President say today after his top National Security team heard a unanimous message from Republicans and Democrats in the House on this today was that he wants to leave by August 31st, but whether we do so or not depends on completion of the mission and depends on whether the Taliban cooperate.

That is actually a new message from the President. I'm interested in whether that actually becomes operationalized in terms of the orders that our military gets.

BOLDUAN: So Congressman, do you think then the President is not really leveling with the American people? Because I agree, it's almost two messages coming out. It's one, the deadline is set. But it's also the President and his aides have all kept saying that he's asked for contingency plans if conditions change on the ground. So is the President not being straight?

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MALINOWSKI: The conditions have changed for the worst in the last 24 hours. The Taliban, because of the mistake, I think that we made of setting this artificial self-imposed deadline, they've now seized upon it as you said and started blocking Afghans at risk from going to the airport.

So my interpretation of the President's statement is that he is telling the Taliban, we'd like to leave, but if you want us to get out of your hair by August 31st, you have to let these Afghans come to the airport. You cannot impede this. Because if you continue to impede it, then our mission will not be complete and we may stay longer.

That is what I heard. I hope that that's what he means. But operationally, it means we can start pulling out massive numbers of Americans from that airport, troops in the next few days. We can't be coming and going at the same time.

BOLDUAN: But isn't that also the problem? It's not like we've got a couple more weeks before this deadline and they also have said that they need to stop evacuating Americans a couple days ahead of time to start actually getting that retrograde going.

MALINOWSKI: Exactly. BOLDUAN: This is hard up against the deadline. You actually like the

message you heard, because you've been very critical of this withdrawls, you're making clear.

MALINOWSKI: I've been very critical, yes.

BOLDUAN: That you like the message that you heard from the President today?

MALINOWSKI: Well, I heard some things today that I thought were new. The important thing is what actually happens on the ground. As of this morning, I think the military felt that the order was they should start leaving and the military need clear instructions. They can't do two contradictory things at the same time.

If we're going to stay there and continue this operation, even through August 31st, we need to be moving things in not taking things out. And so I hope that this is clarified, because what I think we all agree on everybody who's looked at this objectively, including within the administration, we cannot keep the promise that the President made by August 31st and that should be unacceptable.

BOLDUAN: I do want to ask ...

MALINOWSKI: Yes, go ahead.

BOLDUAN: ... well, I'm so sorry.

MALINOWSKI: No, ahead.

BOLDUAN: I'm so sorry to interrupt you. In the briefing that you received today, did Biden's aides, some of his top National Security, his National Security team, did they say to you indicate how did they put it to you in terms of the ability to meet this deadline?

MALINOWSKI: I don't want to talk about what happened in a classified briefing. I think I can say with confidence, though, as a general matter that I don't think anybody believes that we can do more than take Americans out by August 31st as a practical matter.

BOLDUAN: So after hearing the president, you now need more clarification and to be honest, after hearing what you've just said, I think the American people need more clarification on the President's position on this. But what would you then tell, because this is real life, this is really dangerous and this is lives on the line, not only Afghan allies, not only Americans in Afghanistan, but also the security threat against American troops that are on the ground at the same time.

What would you tell Afghan allies tonight who have not yet been able to get to the airport who have been told don't yet come to the airport in some circumstances and they haven't even had a chance yet to get to the gate to evacuate? What do you think the message is to them tonight?

MALINOWSKI: Well, if the message had been we are leaving on August 31st, no matter what, I think that would have led some of them to despair and others to try to rush the airport, which is not in anybody's interest, including the round, including for the safety of our troops. I think that's another reason why it's incredibly important for the administration to be even more clear that the mission will determine the timetable, not the timetable determining the mission.

And I know this is a difficult thing, I have many friends in the administration who are trying to do the right thing. They're struggling with this. But the President has made it absolutely clear repeatedly what the mission is, the United States has to complete this mission.

If we're going to leave Afghanistan, let's leave with something that we can be proud of, a humanitarian rescue that really does right by the people who worked for our troops, who risked their lives for our people and the people in Kabul at least who bet their lives on the future that we promised them.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, thank you very much.

MALINOWSKI: Thank you.

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